Hey, it’s Thursday again, and time for another installment of the Rhythm of War Reread! Today we reach the penultimate chapter of Part Four. The Avalanche is not far off now, and the snow is hanging heavily over our heads—which is to say, the critical plot points are piling up and aligning, and ere long they will all come rushing together and falling on our heads. This is a relatively quiet chapter, for all that, giving a little information on the Kaladin-arc plans but mostly positioning Venli’s moves from here on out. There will still be surprises along the way, but most of it is set up here.
Reminder: We’ll be discussing spoilers for the entirety of the series up until now. If you haven’t read ALL of the published entries of The Stormlight Archive (this includes Edgedancer and Dawnshard as well as the entirety of Rhythm of War), best to wait to join us until you’re done.
Heralds: Vedeledev (Vedel). Edgedancers (Abrasion, Progression). Loving/Healing. Role: Healer.
A: Vedel? Why?
P: Perhaps because of the plan to wake the fallen Radiants?
A: Maybe that’s it… The only other thing I can think of is that it’s somehow tied to Vedel’s inverse, which doesn’t make much sense—but that might be because my brain is so focused on the “betrayal” aspects of this chapter.
Icon: The Singer, for Venli’s POV.
Epigraph:
I tell you; I write it. You must release the captive Unmade. She will not fade as I will. If you leave her as she is, she will remain imprisoned for eternity.
A: Welp. I’m not sure where to start with this, but here goes… I’m initially surprised at a Herald telling whoever-it-is that they should release an imprisoned Unmade. Aren’t they supposed to be enemies? Is it a matter of “it’s too horrible a fate to wish on my worst enemy?” Or is there some other reason that he feels compassion for her? Next week’s epigraph mentions “for the good of all spren” and that terrible harm was done to Roshar, but we’ll talk about that aspect next week. Meanwhile, he seems to want it for her own sake, and I find it… odd.
Beyond that, though, he points to a significant difference between Heralds and Unmade. The Heralds, held to Roshar by the Oathpact, will fade once they’re separated from it. Presumably the Fused also, being likewise Cognitive Shadows, would also fade if imprisoned. The Unmade, though, are different. Is that because they were originally spren (as opposed to humans or singers who became “spren” by way of being Cognitive Shadows), and so there is no artificial link being broken when they’re cut off from all Investiture? Seriously, I have so many questions about the Unmade…
Chapter Recap
WHO: Venli
WHEN: 1175.4.10.3—Almost immediately after Chapter 92, when Raboniel released Venli and gave her the map.
WHERE: Urithiru
(Note: For the “when” notations, we are using this wonderful timeline provided by the folks at The 17th Shard.)
RECAP: Rlain seeks out Venli, hoping to enlist her aid in rescuing the Radiants, and finds her crying over the map she received from Raboniel. She inadvertently reveals just why she’s so shocked that some of the listeners escaped, and ends up telling Rlain the whole terrible story of her betrayal of their people. Though he is disgusted by her actions, he’s pragmatic enough to still seek her help in saving the Radiants, but she refuses. She instead plans how to take her own recruits and go find the surviving listeners, ignoring the potential dangers of doing so.
Chapter Chat—Betrayal and Desperation
“We’re not the last,” Venli whispered. “They are alive, Rlain. Thousands of them.”
A: So here’s Venli, crying over the map and the knowledge that there are listeners out there somewhere that survived. At first blush, this just seems like a lovely discovery, but we have to remember (and Rlain has to find out) that Venli had a very good reason to think they were all dead: She betrayed them and quite reasonably assumed they were dead in the chasms when they managed to escape. (Not that they’d have been in any better condition had they accepted stormform, of course…)
P: No… if they’d taken stormform, they’d truly be dead.
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“It was Thude,” Venli said. “He refused stormform. So did most of Eshonai’s closest friends. … I would have had them killed, but Eshonai separated them off and let them escape. Part of her fought, so she gave them a chance. … “
… “You would have had them killed?” Rlain asked. “Venli, I don’t understand. What is it you’re not telling me?”
“Everything,” she whispered to Pleading. “A thousand lies, Rlain.”
A: Such a perfect chapter title. Character title, even… A thousand lies, indeed.
I remember mixed feelings about what seemed to be coming when I first read this. Relief that (maybe) she was finally going to admit the whole truth to Rlain, hope that he might somehow manage to forgive her and help her grow, and fear that he’d (deservedly) completely reject her and set her back.
P: Yes, she’s essentially blubbering at this point, talking about things that he can’t possibly understand.
A: It’s worth reminding ourselves, perhaps, that Rlain knew virtually nothing of what was going on in the listeners’ camp. He had very little visibility of the kind of leadership role she’d assumed or what happened to their people between then and now. He knew something was badly wrong, but not what or why.
“Kaladin is awake. Teft is too. We have a plan. … We’re going to try to wake the Radiants … If you know something that might help, now would be a good time to talk.”
“Help?” Venli whispered. “Nothing I do helps. It only hurts.”
Rlain hummed to Confusion.
A: Poor Rlain. They’re kinda talking past each other here, because they’re focused on their own priorities. It’s no wonder Rlain is confused, though. Last time they needed help, she volunteered a way to help Kaladin: She knew where Lift was, and could sneak her out to where Rlain and Dabbid could get her to Kaladin. This time, she’s practically ignoring his plea for help, and for no reason that he can possibly understand.
P: Yeah, it’s a convoluted conversation, for sure. They’re both so desperate for the thing they want here that they’re really not paying attention to what the other is talking about.
A: Sigh. I kinda hate the narrative that relies on miscommunication, but to tell the truth, this kind of thing happens all the time. People really don’t know what other people know, or need to know. So they think they’re talking about the same things, and they really aren’t.
At a gentle prompting from Timbre, Venli started talking. … She gave it to him raw. The whole terrible story.
As she spoke, he pulled farther and farther away from her. His expression changed, his eyes widening, his rhythms moving from shocked to angry. As she might have expected. As she wanted.
A: Ouch. Just… It’s all playing out the way it has to, but it hurts. From both sides. Venli is flaying herself raw, and Rlain—who never liked her but was starting to trust her—is just… stabbed in the back by this revelation. Everything bad that’s happened to everyone he cares about was brought about by her actions.
P: I was quite surprised during the beta that she so readily told him her story… I would have thought she’d be too ashamed. But thinking on it now, she is ashamed and seems to want to be rebuked.
A: Yeah, that “As she wanted” is pretty revealing. She has, apparently, reached a point where she’s tired of hiding and just wants to be straight-up hated by someone who knows and has a right to hate her.
“You are a monster,” he finally said. “You did this. You are responsible.”
She hummed to Consolation.
“I suppose the enemy would have found another way,” he said, “without your help.”
A: That is incredibly generous of him. True, of course, but still generous to go there so quickly. Is it believable? I’m not sure—except that he is so focused on helping Kaladin and Teft rescue the Radiants that he’s willing to overlook anything, or at least be distracted from it.
P: SUPER generous of him! To call her a monster and then say, “Well, it probably wasn’t just you that caused it,” in the same breath is a little wishy-washy, like I mentioned before.
And I don’t know that I would necessarily call her a monster. I know, I know, me defending young Venli… weird. But she was so taken in by Ulim. She was more power hungry than a monster, I think. Up until she wanted to kill off all of the detractors, of course. But I think that had a lot to do with stormform.
A: True. Even Eshonai was pretty hostile to the refuseniks when in stormform, and it’s only her incredible inner strength of character that outsmarted the form and made it possible for them to escape. Venli doesn’t have that kind of character, so stormform really did influence her—so much that she’d have had them killed including her own mother.
“I should be able to procure a spot in the next transfer, and from there go with some Heavenly Ones on a scouting mission out to the Shattered Plains.”
“And in so doing, you’d lead the enemy directly to our people,” Rlain said. “Venli, Raboniel obviously wants you to do this.”
A: Has he decided that she was, perhaps, duped into the former betrayal, and is now trying to warn her away from another one? Again, that’s pretty generous of him, given that she told him about years’ worth of continuing betrayals of the listeners. I’m not sure whether he’s being gullible or just desperate.
P: I vote for desperate. Any port in a storm, and such.
“But now isn’t the time. We have to save the Radiants.”
“Do you really want me there when you do, Rlain? Do you want me around?”
He fell silent, then hummed to Betrayal.
“Smart,” she said.
“I don’t want you around right now, Venli,” he said. “But storm me, we need you. And I think you’re trustworthy.”
A: Wait, what??
P: Yeah, he seems to teeter back-and-forth between thinking she’s a traitor and thinking she’s trustworthy. Maybe he’s only thinking of her help with Lift, here?
A: Well, yeah, her help with Lift was both crucial and amazing—plus it gave him the impression that she has a Shardblade, which could be incredibly useful. And he’s desperate.
“You told me this, after all. And who knows how much of what you did was influenced by your forms or those Voidspren?”
A: Sigh. I mean… sort of, yeah, but it’s almost too easy…
P: I think he really must be just so desperate to wake the Radiants that he’s intentionally overlooking her betrayal of their people.
A: At least setting it aside to think about when more urgent matters are taken care of, perhaps.
She looked away, then hummed to Betrayal herself. “No. This isn’t my fight, Rlain. It never was. I have to go see if this map is true. I have to.”
“Fine,” he snapped. He stood to leave, then paused. “You know, all those months running bridges—then training with Kal and the others—I wondered. I wondered deep down if I was a traitor. I now realize I didn’t have the first notes of understanding what it meant to be a traitor.”
A: Oh. My. Stars. BURN. She just betrayed his trust one too many times.
P: Yeah, that was a deep dig. Hit her where it counts, Rlain!
A: Also, what a turn of phrase. “I didn’t have the first notes of understanding what it means…” I love that line.
P: A fitting turn of phrase for a people who speak to rhythms!
She found both Dul and Mazish caring for the fallen Radiants.
Venli pulled them aside, and whispered, “The time has come. Are we ready to leave?”
A: Well, for once she’s not betraying anyone right away. She’s carrying through on her pledge to her recruits… though it’s arguable that she’s still only doing it because she thinks she’s going to need their help. (Yeah, for all I’m glad she ‘fessed up, I’m still frustrated with her for not supporting our people…)
P: But by rushing into it and wanting to utilize Heavenly Ones, she’s just putting her people at risk. Again.
A: So much for not betraying anyone…
Raboniel knew about the listeners who had survived. Surely she’d eventually tell the other Fused.
For the moment, Venli didn’t care.
A: Sigh. Because for the moment, Venli is focused on what Venli wants, and refuses to consider the consequences for anyone else.
P: Guess she still has her weaknesses.
A: She sure does.
Venli doubted she would find redemption among the listeners who had escaped the Fused. … Venli had to try to reach them. For when they’d escaped, they’d taken her mother with them. Jaxlim might be dead—and if not, her mind would still be lost to age.
But she was also the last person—the only person—who might still love Venli, despite it all.
A: Ugh. For as far as she’s come, she’s got a long way to go. Not only is she ignoring the bigger picture and refusing to help rescue the Radiants, she’s risking other lives in pursuit of what she wants and believes she needs. In the past, she betrayed her entire people for her own prestige, and now she’s willing to betray Rlain, her recruits, and all the surviving listeners again—because she wants to find someone who might love her. She has admitted to herself that it’s entirely possible she’ll be followed even if she doesn’t use Heavenly Ones to get there, and she just doesn’t care.
P: While I can certainly understand her desire to find someone who loves her, she’s going about it in entirely the wrong way. She’s rushing her plan instead of taking time to think logically about the situation and make a smart decision.
A: The really sad thing about it, once I get past the infuriating aspect, is that she could be part of something bigger than herself and earn the respect—yes, and love—of other people who need her. She reminds me a bit of Shallan right here; she’s so convinced of her own worthlessness that she doesn’t want to risk further betrayals… except that she can’t see what she’s betraying in the process.
P: She’s definitely not thinking straight or she’d take care of the business at hand and then take the time to be smart and plan the trip to the Shattered Plains.
A: Right? It’s not like they’re suddenly going to vanish if she doesn’t get there tomorrow; they’ve been there for… what is it, 14 months now? As long as no one betrays their presence to a Fused who might decide to go take them over, they’ll be there. She’s got plenty of time to work out a better plan. But no, Venli wants what Venli wants and she simply can’t see past it.
Listeners/Singers/Fused
“So we go to Kholinar, but then what? We’re back where we began.”
“We take the supplies, and we use this writ to leave the city,” Venli explained. “We hike out to the east and disappear into the wilderness to the east of Alethkar, like my ancestors did so many generations ago.”
A: Or, you know, like y’all did after the treaty-night assassination…
P: Sounds like a weak plan, Venli.
A: Honestly, girl has nothing but weak plans. It’s kind of hard to visualize her as an actual functioning Willshaper.
We’ll be leaving further speculation and discussion to you in the comments, and hope to join you there! Next week, we’ll be back with chapter 97, in which Navani makes progress, and then gets maneuvered into creating the actual anti-Voidlight in Raboniel’s presence, giving her all the information needed to make anti-Stormlight. It’s a dreadful cacophony of triumph and disaster to end Part Four.
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RE: Epigraph
Since Oathbreaker, there are two bound unmade. Does Kalak not know about the Thrill, or does that one not matter because it is essentially mindless? Also, does this imply that Bo-Ado-Mishram is not at the bottom of the sea (else how could they recover the gem, especially no knowing where it was dropped)?
Is there any reason for Venli to care what happens to the unconscious Radiants, except second-hand as people Rlain cares about? There’s no indication that Timbre pushes her to help, and she doesn’t know that Rabonial plans to kill them. From her perspective, the bigger picture is finding the remaining Listeners.
IMO, Venli, if not still a coward, certainly is not worthy of the Radiant Oaths she swore. Yet I think that through this chapter, Venli is a coward. Further, I am not sure her actions between Chapters 97 and the end of the book change my opinion about Venli: still a coward.
Paige. Do not worry. If you do not want to call Venli a monster, I will be more than happy to. Venli, you are a monster.
Rlain’s reactions to Venli’s revelations are fascinating to me. She’s done terrible things to their people, we watched her. But Rlain has also been in Bridge 4, and has probably developed excellent listening – and forgiving – skills. He’s been surrounded by people who messed up somehow some way pretty badly but generally recognize it and are trying to make amends or get better. Also Rlain doesn’t have time to give up on a possible asset while she becomes a better person.
To me it’s fascinating how an audience reacts to a character based on when their transgressions happen in relation to the story. Many of our heroes here have done horrible things. We could weigh them, tally up body counts and compare extenuating circumstances – but ultimately don’t we prefer the characters who were “good” or at least trying to be better right when we met them? If the Rift was chapter 1, how would we feel about Dalinar? What if we hadn’t gotten so many Teft viewpoints and our first experience of him was toking some firemoss and ultimately letting the Honorblade be stolen? How would we feel about Moash if we’d “lived through” his backstory like we did Kaladin’s (Moash is making no effort to improve, I get that, and when he killed Teft I very much joined team #effmoash, but really have you never wanted to just not feel as bad as you feel? to have someone take it all away? Moash’s reaction to Odium’s offers are more understandable than Dalinar’s, to me /endtherapysession)
So for Rlain…Venli was the Keeper of Songs (I forget the actual title), a leader working on improving his peoples’ condition. Then she’s here in the tower and helped free Lift. Here’s this terrible revelation, but it’s like us hearing about Shallan killing her parents – we already liked Shallan, and we kind of need her to get her act together so the heroes can succeed, so we’ll rationalize why what she did was ok. (I’m not saying those rationalizations are wrong mind you, I’m just saying Rlain almost immediately making excuses for Venli isn’t that strange, we do it all the time.)
I think Rlain is probably suffering from his own thoughts of betrayal, that’s why he’s willing to trust Venli with this. One thing that bothered me about him is his willingness to trust Kaladin so much; after the whole armor incident. It always seemed very fast that Rlain went from being angry about disrespecting his dead to trusting Kaladin. He does seem trusting a little too quickly.
@2She deserves redemption more than Moash, if only because Moash DOESN’T feel remorse. He wants to let everything die inside. He rejects redemption. Venli stil tries, and saying that she doesn’t deserve her bond is just cruel. Clearly Timbre thinks that she does, otherwise: she wouldn’t try to bond with her. Timbre clearly sensed something when Venli stood over Eshonai’s body, otherwise she would have hidden there The spren clearly sense something in their partners, after all, The cryptic’s tried to help Shallan TWICE now, even after murdering one of their own
@3 That’s a very good point actually. If we first met Shallan as murdering her father, we proabably wouldn’t like her at first. Heck, if we started with Kaladin in the slave cart, instead of seeing him from Cenn’s prespesctive, we probably would roll our eyes at how mopey he was.However, I would say that even the flashbacks showed that Venli, even as a child, was a ambitious little sneak who was jealous of her sister. I do think that Venli does deserve redemption, everyone does; as long as you try to take that redemption. Venli does try to help, she does try to change, it’s just a harder path because of her more selfish attitude.
Steven Hedge @2. Moash is another character I intentsly dislike. No matter what he might do in Book 5 (or even Books 6-10 if Moash lives that long), I find him unredeemable. There are certian individuals that, IMO, are beyond redemption. Venil, Moash, and Lirin are in that category. If you (or anyone else) believes that Moash, Liarin and/or Venli is still redeemable, that is your perogative. I think there is a plausable agrument to be made for them to still be redeemable; just not want I agree with. To each their own.
I’m not sure that Venli’s refusal to help Rlain is her failing to see the bigger picture. I agree with RogerPavelle that from her perspective, the surviving Listeners are the big picture. Particularly since they’re the ones she personally betrayed.
How is “power hungry” a defense against being a monster? How many of the real world’s monsters have been “power hungry” people who ignored everything else in pursuit of that power?
I don’t actually think of Venli as a monster, but that description makes her sound more, not less, monstrous.
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